The Creative Shift: with Kate Packman
Episode 1: Conversations about imposter syndrome, scrappy first drafts, routines & self-publishing with author Kate Packman
This is the first in a series of conversations I’m calling The Creative Shift.
I’m fascinated by how people make space (or don’t) for creative pursuits. So I decided to talk with women who juggle creative practice alongside parenting, caring, other paid work, and a host of other responsibilities. We’ll explore how their creative practice has evolved, how they make time, and what keeps them going.
Ultimately, I wanted to show just how we can make space for the creative life. Even if sometimes that involves a load of tenacity and sometimes, a bit of waiting.
In this first episode, I’m joined by the brilliant Kate Packman: secondary school English teacher, co-founder of Protea Press, former chair of the Ampthill literature festival and author of You Can See the End of the World from Here, which was longlisted for the Bridport Prize in 2024.
Kate kindly gave up her lunch break and holed herself up in a classroom in the middle of a heatwave to talk about writing when her children were young, imposter syndrome, the power of consistency, self-publishing, and why waiting for inspiration is pointless.
You can scroll down to watch a recording of our conversation or read a lightly edited version of our conversation.
But before you do, I urge you to buy a copy of Kate’s book, You Can See the end of the World From Here, set on the Isle of Sheppey. Vivian is juggling menopause, insomnia, and the challenges of parenting. She is also haunted by her 11-year-old son’s belief that he won’t live beyond the age of 12, so is doing all she can to make sure this prophecy is unfulfilled.
It’s available in paperback or ebook on Amazon.
Joanna Wolfarth: Hi and welcome to the creative shift, a series where we explore how people make time for creativity in the midst of everything else that they've got going on in their life. Kate, you have an incredibly busy life so perhaps we could start by talking about how you fit in your writing practice?
Kate: Yeah, it sounds crazy, but it’s not I promise! The way I fit it in is I prioritise it. That's got easier as my children have got older. If I think back to even 5 years ago, when my kids were in their tween years, it was much harder.
And I was trying to think this morning about what changed. What point did I go, right I will absolutely commit to writing. And it was definitely 2019, when I decided to do an MA. That investment - the cost, the time, the effort - made sure I committed fully. I made a decision to put myself first.
Joanna: And what does that look like now? Do you have a routine?
Kate: I don't set anything in stone, but I do work for quite long periods of time which not everybody can do that in terms of concentration, but I have that kind of hyper focus. So I can sit and write for four hours, which most people won’t do! And I spend most weekends writing.
And then, because I'm a teacher, I do have those big lumps of time in the holidays, where I can dedicate more time to my writing, and that's really nice. But it does mean in term time I have to accept that I can't write every day, and I find that quite hard, because I find my mental health goes down if I'm not writing.
Joanna Wolfarth: Oh, there's so much to unpack there, but I want to go back to before your MA, when you said you dipped in and out of writing, What did that look like?
Kate: Once the kids were in bed, I did go through a period of writing in the evenings. I'm 48 now and running up to my 40th birthday I remember feeling very much like, ‘Oh, my God, I'm nearly 40. I need to get on with this’! So I got up every morning at 5, and wrote before I went to work.
Joanna: Was that connected to what you mentioned before about writing being connected to your mental wellbeing?
Kate: Yeah. I know now, at this time in the year for a teacher, it’s a busy time. So I have had very little time to do anything on my writing and I can tell my mood was lower. I can just feel I'm a bit more twitchy and not as relaxed. When I notice that, I think: okay, you need to make time for yourself. You need to sit down and write this weekend.
Joanna: And it sounds like it's a very like you're very routine-led. You've got the rhythm of a week. You've got the rhythm of a school day, and you've got the rhythm of then the academic year. And people often talk about waiting for the moment of inspiration to hit - does that work for you?
Kate: I absolutely don't do that. I literally can't do that. If I waited for that I'd never write anything. I'm a firm believer in just writing something, and even if it's a little bit rubbish, I just keep going and think: well, it'll come. Or I sit down and read something, because I know reading is just as valuable
And there are times when I haven't got the headspace to write, for whatever reason, and then I never give myself a hard time. That's something I'm really quite strict about. I don't beat myself up if I haven't fitted in writing that week, and I just think well, as long as I'm reading, then I'm still working towards my goal.
Joanna: Well, I think that's the thing, isn't it? It's a whole kind of ecosystem and reading, walking, moving, listening to music is all so valuable. Do you do anything else that nourishes your creativity?
Kate: Yeah, I mean, I do struggle with! I'm not great at downtime. I do pilates every morning, and walk to work and back. So those 20 min are really valuable for just headspace, and my downtime would probably be spent watching films or binge watching TV with my husband, because otherwise I don't get any time with him! And then I feel like I'm still kind of working because I don't know about you, but I can't turn off the writer brain now. So if I'm watching a film, I'm going: Oh, that's a setup. Oh, I can see where that's going to come into the plot later on, and and things like that.
Normally, I'm a bit goal orientated but also I'm really flexible. I don't put myself under any pressure, and I don't beat myself up. But I do think, I’ll have a break or reward myself.
And I love a list. So I can cross things off. I always give myself a huge job list for the holidays, and I'll have a teaching job list, then I'll have my work job list, which is books I want to edit or what chapters I want to write.
Joanna: It’s refreshing and important to hear this side of because it's not a particularly romantic way of thinking about writing, but it's probably more of the reality. We need to rethink our relationship to this idea of creative inspiration that strikes like a lightning bolt.
Kate: Yeah. That's a myth. You can just write a scrappy draft that no-one will ever see!
After I had my daughter, I went to university and felt that real pressure of, am I clever enough to do this? Am I academic enough? And blah blah! And it's only after doing that 1st undergrad degree that I was like, actually, it's about how hard you work, not necessarily about how clever you are. I'm just a grafter.
I like to get on and do the best I can do, which is very hard as a writer when you have imposter syndrome, and think, oh, what if it’s not good enough. Or everybody else seems to be doing really well, and everybody else is a bestseller, and everybody else has got a 6 figure publishing deal, and that gets to me just the same as everybody else.
Joanna: I mean, I think that gets to everybody, even the the most successful writers. How do you feel about the term writer? When did you feel able to start calling yourself a writer?
Kate: Gosh! It took me a really long time, and I'm still not particularly comfortable. I spoke to somebody about this the other day, and I said, it's like coming out. It's like, you confess to people: I'm a writer as if it's something secretive and embarrassing, and I don't really understand why. And I wish I could bash that lack of confidence on the head. But I don't seem to be able to shift it.
But once I joined a writers group, I started tentatively telling people. But for years I didn’t tell my students at school because I thought that's so embarrassing, saying that I'm an author and I'm a writer. But now I speak really openly about it, because actually, kids are really supportive, and they just think it's great. It's just other adults that I sometimes am a little bit more nervous about.
I think that's to do with worrying they will ask me what I've written, and they're going to ask if they've heard of me. And of course, you know, there's so many very successful writers out there that not everybody's heard of. So it doesn't matter that they haven't heard of you. But I think it's just a that's a confidence thing, isn't it?
Joanna: There's 2 different things going on, isn't there? Because one is the kind of external metric and validation. And I don't know when you ever reach that point where it’s enough, because I remember thinking, well at what point do I feel I can say I’m a writer? When I finish a draft? When I get an agent? When I get book deal? And the goalposts move, even now I'm kind of like, well, I haven't, won a Pulitzer so….
Kate: I remember thinking when my novel was longlisted for the Bridport prize, well somebody at the Bridport decided to long list my novel and so there must be some credit there. Which gave me the confidence to go out and publish it.
Joanna: And there's something about the internal voice of claiming that space and that identity for yourself. And even if it's just saying to yourself, well, I've sat down for 20 min and written something. Therefore, logically, I'm a writer.
Kate: I do just say it now, and I just I kind of just get over my embarrassment and think whatever you think of me, it's irrelevant, but that comes with age, doesn't it? The older you get, the more confident you get.
I know there's lots of authors far older than me, who've made it later in life, and I'm not concerned about that. But I do feel like you know, I'm 48 and need to keep the momentum going, and I think that's definitely motivated me in the last few years to just keep trying and keep plodding away at it, and knowing that at some point my break will come, and if it doesn't it doesn't matter. My books are out there, and people are reading them.
Joanna: And you’re a member of several writers groups [including one with me!], which I imagine helps. You’re reading other people's work, seeing the evolution of other people's work….
Kate: It does help. I think that was the main reason I did the MA because I wanted another community of writers, and I wanted to sit in that workshop environment and speak about people's writing and listen to feedback on other people's writing as well as my own. And that helped tremendously. And I think, yeah, you just need to remind yourself that 1st drafts are often not that great.
But it’s important to have people you can rely on, and who you trust to read your writing and give you proper critique. I want to know what I can do to make it better, and I've got very thick skin that's definitely got thicker and thicker and thicker over time.
Joanna: Yeah, nothing gets you a thicker skin faster, I think, than doing a postgraduate degree! Just to wrap up, summer is coming up and what is next on your creative to do list?
Kate: So I've got 2 novels that I've edited, and they're at this next edit stage. One's a young adult, one's adult contemporary again. My plan is to get them edited in the holidays and get them ready for another round of readers and hopefully get them closer to publication, because I'm hoping to get them out before the end of the year.
You can do things faster when self-publishing. Plus I got to collaborate with my adult daughter on the last book, she did the cover. I wouldn't be able to do that if I hadn't set up the press [Protea Press] with Helen [Worthington-Smith] and Sophie [Mills], and likewise I wouldn't be able to control when my books come out. I do think there's a lot to be said for that. We sort of make it sound like self-publishing is a relatively new thing. But obviously, Virginia Woolf set up her own press. But there is such a stigma behind it still and I think that really feeds into that imposter syndrome.
And I've got another book I'm halfway through which I want to finish. So but that's that's a that's a if I get time!
Joanna: I need to sit down just listening to your to do list! But for now, I’m going to let you finish your lunch break.
Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me and good luck with your summer.
Carve Out Time for Your Own Creative Exploration
If you’re looking to carve out more time for your own creative practice, you can join me for Thread & Thought, monthly guided online workshops that use visual art and writing to spark reflection and imagination. We are also building a wonderful little community.
If you prefer to go at your own pace, this summer I’m running Little Windows: A Writing Retreat at Home which offers weekly creative prompts that are perfect for fitting moments of inspiration into everyday life.
I also offer 1:1 mentoring, bespoke support for writers at any stage of a project. Whether you're just beginning or deep in revision, I can help you move forward.
Email me at joanna@joannawolfarth.com to arrange a chat to see how I can best support you.
And, if you’re looking to bring more creativity into your organisation or are looking to reduce employee stress and burnout, I run Creative Shift workshops for teams and workplaces. Find out more here or email me for more info x
“I have appreciated how skilfully Joanna has facilitated the sessions.
I’m a clinical psychologist and often facilitate groups and/or teach so know how tricky it can be to get the balance right between leading whilst also holding space for others to voice their thoughts and reflections. Joanna’s groups feel balanced and a safe space to think creatively and connect with others. I have also loved how rich the sessions feel.
I’ve enjoyed learning about the art we’ve been show. I’ve also valued the writing prompts, which always extend the learning and meaning making into new and interesting directions.”
